Hey all, I'm new here and new to freight hopping in general.
Almost all of the content or info I see online is regarding freight hopping in the USA/Canada. So, I was wondering is anyone doing it in the UK or Europe? I'd love to give it a go but I don't have the money to travel anywhere else apart from mainland Europe and the UK.
Almost all of the content or info I see online is regarding freight hopping in the USA/Canada. So, I was wondering is anyone doing it in the UK or Europe? I'd love to give it a go but I don't have the money to travel anywhere else apart from mainland Europe and the UK.
UK has third rails, short trains and shit scenery, it's just not worth it compared other places.
What do you mean by third rails?
Electrified rails that power the trains. They're not everywhere, and certainly less common in freight yards, but they will kill you, instantly.
Yeah, people ask me all the time if I'll freight hop in the UK. My answer is almost definitely not.
- Small, much less rideable trains
- Shorter distances; you'd be on a train for an hour before it rolls into a power station or something
- Not particularly amazing scenery (not everywhere but most routes)
- Electricity (fuck that)
- Higher security
- Oh and I wouldn't be able to make a video of it either, because the British Transport Police would be knocking on my door by the end of the week. And if I can't make a video of it then there's not much point.
Like I've said in 100 replies to 100 comments; too much risk for too little reward!
I was in touch with a guy who's done it a few times though, so it does happen.
- Small, much less rideable trains
- Shorter distances; you'd be on a train for an hour before it rolls into a power station or something
- Not particularly amazing scenery (not everywhere but most routes)
- Electricity (fuck that)
- Higher security
- Oh and I wouldn't be able to make a video of it either, because the British Transport Police would be knocking on my door by the end of the week. And if I can't make a video of it then there's not much point.
Like I've said in 100 replies to 100 comments; too much risk for too little reward!
I was in touch with a guy who's done it a few times though, so it does happen.
brave dave, what do you reccomend for a starter freight hoppers journey? thanks, noah.
In the UK your videos would end up with you riding on the back of a replacement bus service most of the time anyway! :-)
Europe would probably be more of an option for people looking to do this closer to home, countries with vast expanses of land to transport goods across would probably be better-again though. I bet Australia has some amazing Freight-hopping opportunities, but they also have spiders that can kill a man, so in the words of Dave himself... FUCK THAT! haha
Stay safe people.
Europe would probably be more of an option for people looking to do this closer to home, countries with vast expanses of land to transport goods across would probably be better-again though. I bet Australia has some amazing Freight-hopping opportunities, but they also have spiders that can kill a man, so in the words of Dave himself... FUCK THAT! haha
Stay safe people.
Velocitist, I don't actually recommend anything to beginners. My only real advice is to not do it. Boring, I know (and some might say hypocritical) but it really is dangerous and I don't want any fool-hardy kids falling under trains because they were inspired by my videos. Honestly, trains do not mess about.
Australia has a lot of freight but the distances in that country are MASSIVE! The thought of being on some train going through the outback for three days solid in the blazing sunshine does not appeal to me much. Plus the spiders and everything else that kills you :P
MrWeetabix is right! Stay safe!
Australia has a lot of freight but the distances in that country are MASSIVE! The thought of being on some train going through the outback for three days solid in the blazing sunshine does not appeal to me much. Plus the spiders and everything else that kills you :P
MrWeetabix is right! Stay safe!
alright i will take that advice into consideration. thank you much!!!
make sure to sta safe!
make sure to sta safe!
seen some crazy kids surfing in the uk,looks well dodgy
Okay, so if I wanted to make a trip to London, score a free ride to east Crawley (for example), cover myself as much as possible, document everything on video, and then arrive back in America where I live, would I still have the UK people knocking at my door?!
If I had to suggest, I would say the best countries to seek out would be USA, Canada, a little bit of Mexico, Russia, and Australia.
If I had to suggest, I would say the best countries to seek out would be USA, Canada, a little bit of Mexico, Russia, and Australia.
I, as a brit, would never ever recommend anyone from the US or UK go to russia to do that. That's just asking for trouble. More risk than it's worth that.
I'm in Britain and I've been giving this subject some thought, which is one reason I joined the forum. I think freight-hopping here is a possibility, but you would have to be very careful about the route you select - and what I am about to say is not intended to encourage anybody. I'm aware of at least one route that could be very rideable, but it is dangerous and any attempt would need to be planned thoroughly.
Some of the downsides mentioned above could be seen as upsides, and one or two points don't apply everywhere. For instance, the relative shortness of the journeys should make it easier and safer to catch-out and makes the routes and train behaviour very predictable. The trains do go quite slow on some routes, even over long distances, and tend to stop frequently at signalling and sidings. It's also relatively easy to find to good catch-out spots and there are large parts of the country that are not electrified.
To give you an example, in the case of the route I have in mind:
- the route itself is very interesting and the scenery over much of it is good, even spectacular at times, including views across a major estuary;
- the train moves very slowly at the beginning and end of the route, and slows and stops at key points during the route;
- there is little or no security at the start and end of the route, and trespassing and then escaping at the end without being detected should be easy;
- the journey lasts no more than 3 hours;
- there is somewhere to sit/stand during the journey;
- the route is not electrified.
The main downside, as far as I can see, is the rideability of the wagons/cars and the consequences that follow from this. By the looks of it, British wagons seems to have been intentionally designed to deter trespassers, and if you do catch-out, most of the time you're going to be sitting on the back of a flat-top: not necessarily all that hazardous in itself as long as you're careful, but the problem is that there is a significant chance of being spotted during the journey, due to the lack of concealment.
TLDR: It's very possible if you plan carefully, but the risk of detection is high due to the lack of anywhere to hide when you're on the train.
Some of the downsides mentioned above could be seen as upsides, and one or two points don't apply everywhere. For instance, the relative shortness of the journeys should make it easier and safer to catch-out and makes the routes and train behaviour very predictable. The trains do go quite slow on some routes, even over long distances, and tend to stop frequently at signalling and sidings. It's also relatively easy to find to good catch-out spots and there are large parts of the country that are not electrified.
To give you an example, in the case of the route I have in mind:
- the route itself is very interesting and the scenery over much of it is good, even spectacular at times, including views across a major estuary;
- the train moves very slowly at the beginning and end of the route, and slows and stops at key points during the route;
- there is little or no security at the start and end of the route, and trespassing and then escaping at the end without being detected should be easy;
- the journey lasts no more than 3 hours;
- there is somewhere to sit/stand during the journey;
- the route is not electrified.
The main downside, as far as I can see, is the rideability of the wagons/cars and the consequences that follow from this. By the looks of it, British wagons seems to have been intentionally designed to deter trespassers, and if you do catch-out, most of the time you're going to be sitting on the back of a flat-top: not necessarily all that hazardous in itself as long as you're careful, but the problem is that there is a significant chance of being spotted during the journey, due to the lack of concealment.
TLDR: It's very possible if you plan carefully, but the risk of detection is high due to the lack of anywhere to hide when you're on the train.
I've heard that of every where in the UK, Wales is the best for that don't quote me on that though
Freight hopping seems great and me and my friend really want to try some spots in the UK. We’re both very much broke so can’t go anywhere else but the plan is to give it a try this summer and see what it’s like. Might end up with the journey of a lifetime or might end up going home and starting to save up for tickets to somewhere worth hopping!
I just recently discovered Brave Dave’s freight hop videos. I think they are among the best freight hop videos on YouTube…..great job Dave. Gutted to hear you are effectively banned from North America for a decade.
Anyway I have been reading with interest this thread on UK freight hopping. I’d pretty much echo what has been said. I’d say it’s possible, but as already mentioned the rewards are low for quite a lot of risk. I would not want to encourage anyone to do it, but with my knowledge of UK railways I would add the following for anyone contemplating it:
-Research the route very thoroughly…….ie what kind of wagons you can expect and what cargo is carried. Luckily there are loads of Foamer videos on YT to watch for info. Forget riding intermodals in the UK….there is nowhere to hide.
-You DO NOT want to go anywhere near a train carrying Nuclear materials between the various Nuclear sites in the UK, or a train carrying military equipment (tanks etc). These types of train will be escorted by armed Civil Nuclear Constabulary or armed Military Of Defence Police.
-There is absolutely zero train hopping/hobo culture in the UK…..if you are spotted by anyone while you are riding, they will assume you are a crazy teenage train surfer or a terrorist and you will be reported immediately. So you’d absolutely need to be out of sight. Due to the extreme health and safety culture in UK rail and perceived terrorism threat, if you are spotted by an employee or BTP officer (British Transport Police) riding a train there is every chance they would stop all trains on the tracks and go all out to catch you…..I wouldn’t be surprised if they got a police chopper up to find you. Due to the compactness of the UK you are always within range of a police helicopter.
-If you are just spotted trespassing they would probably respond with much less urgency….I hear an on the spot fine is common for a first offence (£80).
-The entire UK rail network is very busy with passenger trains….probably +90% of daytime rail traffic. A lot of freight travels in the darkest hours of the night (RIP Stobe) in the UK. Passenger trains are fast and very frequent, we have the fastest Diesel locomotives in the world……125mph. You would need to be very careful when bailing not to get hit by one on the other track. This might seem obvious but every year in the UK 2 or 3 people get killed crossing tracks at designated crossing points ‘cos they underestimate the closing speed of high speed trains. These very frequent passenger trains also mostly still have toilets that flush onto the tracks, so you can expect to encounter a lot of S***.
-Don't even bother going onto any electrified track. The 3rd rail system is 750v and although the overhead system might seem safer, it is 25,000v and can jump quite a distance in the right conditions.
So don’t do it!
Anyway I have been reading with interest this thread on UK freight hopping. I’d pretty much echo what has been said. I’d say it’s possible, but as already mentioned the rewards are low for quite a lot of risk. I would not want to encourage anyone to do it, but with my knowledge of UK railways I would add the following for anyone contemplating it:
-Research the route very thoroughly…….ie what kind of wagons you can expect and what cargo is carried. Luckily there are loads of Foamer videos on YT to watch for info. Forget riding intermodals in the UK….there is nowhere to hide.
-You DO NOT want to go anywhere near a train carrying Nuclear materials between the various Nuclear sites in the UK, or a train carrying military equipment (tanks etc). These types of train will be escorted by armed Civil Nuclear Constabulary or armed Military Of Defence Police.
-There is absolutely zero train hopping/hobo culture in the UK…..if you are spotted by anyone while you are riding, they will assume you are a crazy teenage train surfer or a terrorist and you will be reported immediately. So you’d absolutely need to be out of sight. Due to the extreme health and safety culture in UK rail and perceived terrorism threat, if you are spotted by an employee or BTP officer (British Transport Police) riding a train there is every chance they would stop all trains on the tracks and go all out to catch you…..I wouldn’t be surprised if they got a police chopper up to find you. Due to the compactness of the UK you are always within range of a police helicopter.
-If you are just spotted trespassing they would probably respond with much less urgency….I hear an on the spot fine is common for a first offence (£80).
-The entire UK rail network is very busy with passenger trains….probably +90% of daytime rail traffic. A lot of freight travels in the darkest hours of the night (RIP Stobe) in the UK. Passenger trains are fast and very frequent, we have the fastest Diesel locomotives in the world……125mph. You would need to be very careful when bailing not to get hit by one on the other track. This might seem obvious but every year in the UK 2 or 3 people get killed crossing tracks at designated crossing points ‘cos they underestimate the closing speed of high speed trains. These very frequent passenger trains also mostly still have toilets that flush onto the tracks, so you can expect to encounter a lot of S***.
-Don't even bother going onto any electrified track. The 3rd rail system is 750v and although the overhead system might seem safer, it is 25,000v and can jump quite a distance in the right conditions.
So don’t do it!
Hi Dave,
I am thinking about freight hopping in Germany. Germany has a pretty awesome freight train network. I have some contacts who did it once but do you have any advice for me as a (can I say it?) professional?
Or shouldn’t I do it.
Stay safe Dave!
I am thinking about freight hopping in Germany. Germany has a pretty awesome freight train network. I have some contacts who did it once but do you have any advice for me as a (can I say it?) professional?
Or shouldn’t I do it.
Stay safe Dave!
Well first of all I'm definitely, definitely not a professional. Second of all I have zero knowledge about German freight.
So in conclusion, I don't think you should do it. But hey, I'm just some guy on the Internet! You do what you want! :P
So in conclusion, I don't think you should do it. But hey, I'm just some guy on the Internet! You do what you want! :P
Okay. Thanks Dave. I have also zero knowledge about German freight hopping so I asked my contacts if they want to go with me. But i think I am not going to do it any more
Probably very wise of you, BDF! It's usually best to play it safe when it comes to potentially very dangerous activities and a total lack of knowledge about them. And if German rail security is anything like the German stereotypes of being super efficient and without humour... yeah, you don't want to get caught :P
Thanks for the response again. I called those guys who gave me the information and said that I don’t going to do freight hopping anymore. My cousin did a little freight hop in the Netherlands (where I live) and he was caught 10 minutes after he jumped on. But that rail worker was nice and let him go with a warning. Getting caught in the Netherlands is not very difficult. We have 1 yard here and 2 tracks😂😂. So everybody: don’t freight hop in the Netherlands.
Haha. Yeah, it helps if the country you're hopping in has hundreds of yards and tens of thousands of miles of track. Trains that are over a mile long are useful as well.
Haha, trains of maybe 1/4 mile isn’t that useful.
As an ex railway engineer i'll share some advice and booke23 nailed quite alot of it...
Getting seen on any freight train during the day will be reported and yes all trains will be stopped, getting caught will result in a massive fine, (1 minute delay is £1000 per train on main lines) so you'll be prosecuted.
Stay away from london 3rd rail, also used in parts of liverpool, 650v DC if you land on it or step on it you will DIE there is no second chance.
Stay away from overhead lines, 25,000v AC touch them not only will you be fried but you will be thrown off them, you will have 2 holes in your body, 1 where the electric has entered, 2 where its ground out of you, expect to loose your limbs.
Stay away from any moving parts on the railway, ie points/switches which the trains use to change tracks, nearly everything here in the uk has been upgraded to clamp lock hydraulic, put you foot in the mechanism expect to lose it or you'll be trapped till the next train runs over the top of you.
6ft clearance between the two tracks is 1830mm + the over hang of the trains, if you've got a bag on your back your dead if you get caught in there when two trains are passing.
All signal boxes in the uk look into wagons, most signallers give the train a wave and have a look at it when passing.
Freight trains are slow on the mainline and pull over to let passenger trains past sometimes looped in a station, imagine being in a hopper and being spotted by people at a station.
Drivers of other trains and passengers will see you in low sided wagons.
Most lines shut at 11.30pm after the last train, nothing moves in Scotland after 11.30pm unless its a works train
So being ex railway how would i do it?
Safest would be at night, there are a few cracking trains you more than likely wouldn't have seen in the day that travel throught the night, WCML (west coast main line) open all night down to 2 tracks instead of the 4. All stations are closed, cctv will more than likely not be monitored.
There are a few car transporter trains through the night, come out of the Docks down south somewhere (slips my mind) near london and end up in Wigan not far from Liverpool, they used to pass me at stoke when I working at nights.
I like the look of canada, lets be honest the scenery is more the reason to do it.
Its not recommended over here, safety is paramount, do your research properly first, all the best
Getting seen on any freight train during the day will be reported and yes all trains will be stopped, getting caught will result in a massive fine, (1 minute delay is £1000 per train on main lines) so you'll be prosecuted.
Stay away from london 3rd rail, also used in parts of liverpool, 650v DC if you land on it or step on it you will DIE there is no second chance.
Stay away from overhead lines, 25,000v AC touch them not only will you be fried but you will be thrown off them, you will have 2 holes in your body, 1 where the electric has entered, 2 where its ground out of you, expect to loose your limbs.
Stay away from any moving parts on the railway, ie points/switches which the trains use to change tracks, nearly everything here in the uk has been upgraded to clamp lock hydraulic, put you foot in the mechanism expect to lose it or you'll be trapped till the next train runs over the top of you.
6ft clearance between the two tracks is 1830mm + the over hang of the trains, if you've got a bag on your back your dead if you get caught in there when two trains are passing.
All signal boxes in the uk look into wagons, most signallers give the train a wave and have a look at it when passing.
Freight trains are slow on the mainline and pull over to let passenger trains past sometimes looped in a station, imagine being in a hopper and being spotted by people at a station.
Drivers of other trains and passengers will see you in low sided wagons.
Most lines shut at 11.30pm after the last train, nothing moves in Scotland after 11.30pm unless its a works train
So being ex railway how would i do it?
Safest would be at night, there are a few cracking trains you more than likely wouldn't have seen in the day that travel throught the night, WCML (west coast main line) open all night down to 2 tracks instead of the 4. All stations are closed, cctv will more than likely not be monitored.
There are a few car transporter trains through the night, come out of the Docks down south somewhere (slips my mind) near london and end up in Wigan not far from Liverpool, they used to pass me at stoke when I working at nights.
I like the look of canada, lets be honest the scenery is more the reason to do it.
Its not recommended over here, safety is paramount, do your research properly first, all the best
Some good tips there BBNWR. Nice to have some inside knowledge.
I've been paying more attention to railway trespass incidents in the UK over the past year or so. There was a tragic incident last summer when three graffiti artists were killed together on the railway in South London. Since then I think the authorities have taken a tougher stance on railway trespass. There have been a few cases of people just being spotted on railway property resulting in the stopping of all trains and a helicopter being scrambled to catch them. So not only would you absolutely have to be out of sight when hopping, but also when loitering on railway property. Night time definitely seems wise, however you wouldn't get away with using head torches/flash lights like the guys do on North American night hops. You'd be spotted pretty quickly on the short UK trains.
Of course the other thing to consider (although no fun by comparison) is that it is fairly easy to evade fares on passenger trains in the UK. You could travel around in comfort, for free, quite easily for weeks. Even if you get caught the penalty is only £20!
I've been paying more attention to railway trespass incidents in the UK over the past year or so. There was a tragic incident last summer when three graffiti artists were killed together on the railway in South London. Since then I think the authorities have taken a tougher stance on railway trespass. There have been a few cases of people just being spotted on railway property resulting in the stopping of all trains and a helicopter being scrambled to catch them. So not only would you absolutely have to be out of sight when hopping, but also when loitering on railway property. Night time definitely seems wise, however you wouldn't get away with using head torches/flash lights like the guys do on North American night hops. You'd be spotted pretty quickly on the short UK trains.
Of course the other thing to consider (although no fun by comparison) is that it is fairly easy to evade fares on passenger trains in the UK. You could travel around in comfort, for free, quite easily for weeks. Even if you get caught the penalty is only £20!
Couldn't agree more mate, i hate the thought of anyone dying on the railways I've seen my fare share of fatalities over the years, railways are a dangerous place because you don't know what your enemy is or where its coming from, you are probably safer joining the military. Even with experience railway workers die every year across the world.
Hundreds of railway workers are on track at nights up and down the uk, one sign of a flashlight and yes a call will be made, like you said if the chopper is out just for tresspassing then it'll be on you in minutes if you are seen hopping.
Maybe the best thing to do is save up and visit canada, i could do with some time off work anyway.👍
Hundreds of railway workers are on track at nights up and down the uk, one sign of a flashlight and yes a call will be made, like you said if the chopper is out just for tresspassing then it'll be on you in minutes if you are seen hopping.
Maybe the best thing to do is save up and visit canada, i could do with some time off work anyway.👍
Although the United States rails has their similarity to Canada as far as freight cars, it gets pretty tough over here - especially when you don't plan ahead and study the places.
If freight hopping in the united states would you be liable to be tried in each state if you were caught? I'm wondering if thats why canada is best so if you get caught theres only one justice system... if you get what i mean?
Say they took you camera and it shows 4 states for you are hopping in for example is that 4 seperate charges?
Say they took you camera and it shows 4 states for you are hopping in for example is that 4 seperate charges?
Yeah, the U.S. freight network is very comprehensive and complex. It doesn't lend itself to casual hopping, You only have to watch Stobe the Hobo's videos to see how difficult it can be even if you are very experienced. Also as a foreigner you probably don't want to get caught hopping in the U.S. as you could end up getting deported under some terrorism law.
The Canadian rail network is much simpler than the U.S. and I imagine they would be a little more forgiving to a foreigner if caught, but who knows. As for the Justice system in Canada........it actually seems similar to the U.S. ie When Dave tried to go back to Canada he got stopped by immigration at St Johns airport in Newfoundland as there was a Warrant for his arrest in the province of Saskatchewan (3000 miles from St Johns!). They didn't really want to arrest him and gave him the opportunity of leaving the country!
The Canadian rail network is much simpler than the U.S. and I imagine they would be a little more forgiving to a foreigner if caught, but who knows. As for the Justice system in Canada........it actually seems similar to the U.S. ie When Dave tried to go back to Canada he got stopped by immigration at St Johns airport in Newfoundland as there was a Warrant for his arrest in the province of Saskatchewan (3000 miles from St Johns!). They didn't really want to arrest him and gave him the opportunity of leaving the country!
Even knowing the risks I'd certainly be willing to sit down and chat about it and put a plan together if anyone fancies a holiday to Canada. Like already mentioned its not something thats going to happen over night, fail to prepare, prepare to fail. Its all in the planning...
Canadian rail = amazing freight, crap passenger
British rail = amazing passenger, crap freight
British rail = amazing passenger, crap freight
